That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. TAMPA, Fla., July 27, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- A 30-year veteran law enforcement officer with the Tampa Police Department (TPD) today filed a lawsuit against Sig Sauer, Inc., the maker of his. But were way past the days of major league, internationally known gunmakers turning out complete crap, selling it and the public living with it. About $300. Sig Sauer's P320 is widely used by police departments across the country, and is a big seller in the civilian market, with about half a million sold nationwide. Back in 2017, SIG instituted a voluntary upgrade program to replace the original production triggers with new enhanced triggers designed to fix the issue that we and others observed when the pistols were dropped onto hard surfaces. Yes, but that did not mean the machine would be able to go on being marketed like that. Circumstances that explained those un-commanded discharges.. If it were a lowered tier manufacturer like a Taurus having allegations made against them, people would run with it without thinking twice. Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. Now when you lose your grip on lawn mowers or snow blowers they will not keep travelling foreword all by themselves. It was expensive. A fellow kept his DA revolver in the desk. Over the top, hammy and with incredible choleric energy, but as he once said, when you trying to seriously sell a scene that has space ship with obvious carboard walls, christmas lights and a guy in a rubber gorilla suit with a plastic horn on its head, if you play it lowkey youre dead the audience is gonna focus on how cheesy it all is. He said hes a gun owner and a concealed carry permit holder. My dad owned one and that is exactly what happened one time when he was using it. No autographs, No self taken pictures. They function as commanded every time. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. LOL! To give you an example of early self-propelled lawn mowers if you lost your grip on the handles the mower would not shut off and it would take off on its own right down the street all by itself. I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. This gun had been voluntary upgraded. Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging By Tom Knighton | 11:30 AM on October 30, 2021 AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast Several years ago, there was an issue discovered with the. Yes, its reliable, but no more so than most other major brands well known models. Much has been made of Nimoys Spock being the most popular character in TOS, but Id argue that without Shatners over-the-top swagger and brash manner, the balance would be lost. "It has a clear capacity to fire without the trigger being pulled under certain conditions," said Hilton's lawyer, Jeffrey Bagnell. Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. Its a novelty, its got issues! there is no better. If the latter were to occur, the drop safety would prevent discharge because it would not be pushed up by anything. No picture for me. Ron Cohen ruined Kimber and now hes doing the same to SIG. Theyve also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. The VIP screening with the meet and greet was like $600. The Glock fails on both counts. That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). Quit blaming cops or the military, these guns have a serious problem. Google Keith Slatowski, is he lying also? Golly didnt Sig catch he!! Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? Stinking Lawyers and quota cops. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. I call b-s on all these my gun magically went off. That said, I own multiple P320s, but all of them have the manual safety due to personal preference. So are dumb(or arrogant) cops. All those customers who paid $1600 now had a limited function paper weight. The Glocks lack of a manual safety has caused untold thousands of needless cripplings and death. Hilton has filed a $15 million lawsuit alleging the P320 has a serious design and manufacturing flaw. ABC ran their story on the P320 twice, but with some significant differences between the two reports. Thats fine. They've also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. At least the Lion roars when he is hungry, the C.E.O smiles at you and when you turn your back he puts a knife right into it. If you did the same with a Glock or an M&P without the thumb safeties, youd get the same result. The problem is non-existent. Give me a break. The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. Happy with my old S&W revolvers, 3rd Gen S&W pistols,1911s and a slew of P226s. Bagnells and other lawsuits ABC claims at least 54 discharges and 10 suits against SIG describe instances of P320s going off dating back to 2016, prior to the upgrade. And I suspect at end of day this recent P320 one will be identified as a negligent discharge or from weapons from 2017 where owners failed to . What I can say is that article reads like a hit piece on the individuals who may or may not of made mistakes with their firearms from someone who worships at the alter of sig. Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. The suit mirrors lawsuits filed across the country involving the semi-automatic gun known as the P320. Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army 's Modular Handgun System is based. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. OR some gorilla with more brawn than brains ignored the 40lb trigger pull they suddenly had to break the tab. Liberal, Conservative. Note the addition of ominous background music in the second seven-minutes-longer version (there was no music in the Good Morning America version). Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. JTF-2 is the only unit in. PDs are dropping them from contracts. Big public relations disaster and Sig tries a second time to get the piece of shit to work and not go off when dropped. SIG P320s were just the start and the P365 isnt far behind. Even if it was an issue with the sear interface, there is still a firing pin safety that will not move unless the trigger is held firmly to the rear. I didnt even touch it! Charlton, headquartered in Victoria, B.C., for comment on its original story, but neither responded. . This reminds me of when Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News for sexual harassment and she got 20 million dollars. Using an example from the first prong, we legitimately fault the user who shot himself in the palm, rightfully asking why in the WORLD his palm was in front of the muzzle when he set the gun down. A plastic gun that has a tendency to go off by itself. Inside the gun, a metal piece called the sear should keep the weapon from firing until the trigger is pulled. The claim basically boils down to the notion that in normal, unconcerning operation, a foreign body entered the striker body. Jeff Bagnell, a lawyer in Westport, Conn., who has litigated 10 cases, mostly by commercial gun owners, related to SIG P320 misfires across several U.S. states, took note of the accident involving the Canadian special forces soldier. For the moron Neanderthals of the Far Right who will scream its the operators fault and we do not give a shit about marketing more safer designed weapons, if such idiotic polices were followed for other consumer goods today we would not have safety glass, anti-lock breaks, back up safeties, child proof medicine caps and chemical bottles, back up cameras, kick back muzzles on chain saws and the list goes on and on. They passed every state and national drop test requirement out there. If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. Id read that for TMP, they got NASA to help in the design of the refit Enterprise. Not too long after they sold a pistol to the public and United States military thats not even DROP SAFE?!? One hell of a conspiracy. At this point I would have to say that Taurus is a better handgun. Training and experience are not a talisman that magically prevents accidents. You should always use a real holster, or carry it condition 3 or 4 if its off-body. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. The claimed mode of failure was that the tab on the drop safety that interferes with the striker movement had been sheered off and stopped being a drop safety. Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. At rest, cocked, it may very well have enough oomph to set some primers off. You would have to conclude theres a problem with the product, not with the people., In the Nightline version, Bagnell says, Firearms are not subject to federal regulation. Everyone knows Glocks are the absolute pinnacle of perfection and have never had one single defect ever! The heads up testing was immediately finished the Sig was the winner. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. Note also that ABC didnt provide any context for the number of suits filed against SIG. It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. If its not legal momentum, it would have to be some other mechanism of failure.. The military has found that the pistol has a tendency to eject live rounds among other issues. Hello perpetrators, Lee Paige is clearly the gift that keeps on giving though our buddy Hunter Biden is a close second! The clearest memory I have about the many people experiencing post-upgrade discharges is a cop who set his P320 on a table, and several seconds after letting go, IT DISCHARGED ON ITS OWN! None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG. I guess none got her the attention she wanted and a national coverage so she went in for the bang. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. saw the video, doesnt explain how it bypasses striker pin safety. The new Kirk does suck. Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. Weird how that might happen. The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. I lost $200 on a gun that had less then 1000 rounds through it but I could care. Have heard of no issues like the alleged gremlin caused spontaneous discharges of the P320 in other Sig models. Pity that some of the most common reactions fall into two over simplistic categories: 1. Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. It nicely describes what has to happen in a striker-fired P320 for an un-commanded discharge to happen as the plaintiffs have claimed. Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. . The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. The suit also cites other occurrences of "un-commanded" discharges with the 320 while holstered. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. Dude, your story is THREE years old. D. Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. So park the Cops suck cause they aint gunfighters! bull**it. She claims that her holstered P320 pistol went off while she was carrying it in her purse. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . Had a buddy, years ago, that was a deputy for Orange County in California. You couldnt ask questions. The weapons are currently on the shelf and the soldiers have returned to using their older model SIG P226s. ABCs own hired consultant, who appears to have no dog in these fights, asserted that he could find no reasonable explanation for these claims and that he considers the upgraded P320 pistols safe for sale to law enforcement and the public. The new Tauruses have a good rep, far better then the P320 or P365. TTAG talked to Bagnell, who told us that he wants it to be known that he is not anti-gun and doesnt want to see more gun control laws in this country. Theyre cheering for a noose around their own precious Glocks throat. Thats why NY demanded the NY Trigger be installed on Glocks before theyd buy them. I own Serpa holsters in multiple configurations (1911, Beretta 96, H&K, Springfield, etc) for most of the time theyve been around and I NEVER had an ND. First, clearing a loaded firearm with a finger over the muzzle doesnt exhibit even cursory adherence to the Four Rules. They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. His annual qualification consisted of shooting 32 rounds. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. Theyre the only product that is not. When Villani was asked for his opinion of SIG Sauer, he said, I carry SIGs, I own SIGs, I just dont own a 320nor would I ever. When Scott asked Villani what he found when he took a P320 apart, he said, I thought Wow, they need to do their homework, they need to fix this gun.. I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again. Stupid marine, cop, citizen, its their fault. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. Asking for a friend. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. They wouldnt have adopted it if was. I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. The best take on this subject is by the author himself: this is about slime lawyers looking to build a national narrative and get a few wins in, so they can more easily get the next win and the next one, the next one and so on. In this version, Bridge City Officer Brittany Hilton tells her story of what she says happened when her P320 discharged as she was carrying it in her purse in what appears to be a SERPA holster (which has had its own problems, but thats another story). As for the Serpa holster, this is a bunch of internet echo chamber BS that originated with Obama-era federal agencies putting a bad light on a good product in order to sway public opinion and thus damage the manufacturers bottom line. Quite frankly, a sizable number of the LEOs that go there, would benefit from a Gun Safety 101 class. It SHOULD have more engagement width wise, but often doesnt due to things being rounded or out of square. People who know how to handle guns prudently and safely. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. Its the expert who gets caught up in the routine and stops paying attention. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? If you can make the trigger move backwards, all bets are off. to docile, too subtle, to contextual. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. The round went downrange so nobody was hurt. If you want to find the lowest form of life on the planet interview any C.E.O. But breaking news here, skippy. Again the Far Right Stupidity and hypocrisy is infinite. He had to be reprimanded by the range officer twice for unsafe handling of his pistol. So even if, as the ambulance chaser claims, the striker leg could vibrate off of the sear face, it could not discharge unless the drop safety was also disengaged because the drop safety prevents movement of the striker sufficient to make the firing pin protrude from the breech face.