You know I'm like seriously I can't get a picture of the thing but what it what it is. Patrick Tate: It became a very interesting investigation over time because it started becoming. Mountain Lions in NH. And it came out we could see it had and we could see its long swooping tail. Erler is a senior naturalist at the Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness. Rick van de Poll: 80 90. I don't know if she still is. We'll push great photos to the front page. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. Have you seen one. 1957. And so maybe before I go to you recommend I ask you Patrick Tate is the standard too high. Thank you. There's always been physical evidence to prove those situations like hair or fur scat hair prints pictures of the animal print scat hair. Thank you. The states never denied mountain lions are here, and theyve never admitted mountain lions are here. Residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. You know one of the the biggest questions I have about that is it points to how much we don't know and if in fact we don't know enough. So I reached down to grab the camera and looked back and like a ghost it's gone. There's no attraction. Just one quick point I think I think when we we talk about these conspiracy theories the real story is that fish and game is an agency that that is short on budget and staff. Rick van de Poll: Well the mountain lion of course has been sort of an enigma in the wildlife suite for years and years. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. They're very loyal to what the handler which makes them very dangerous to everyone else. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. Information online ad an age student loans dawg. There are corollaries in other states. So it is possible to see male Mountain lions roam into the northeast - there was one hit by a car in CT a number of years back - but we don't have a breeding population of Mountain lions in New England. Administrative Links. Peter Biello: So Rick seems like you agree that the tail is a big giveaway whether or not it's a mountain lion Absolutely. Let us know your story and share your photos. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. You know you have to have a license and it's hard to get that license a license to own a mountain lion. The Lions of New Hampshire: MD44 Links. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. That's next time on one day. Patrick Tate: So I agree with what Sam said in part that their ability to go undetected for amount of time but ultimately it was detected. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. Theres tracks everywhere. Listeners we'd love to hear some of your thoughts on this. The book MAMMAL TRACKS & SIGN by Mark Elbroch has pictures of mountain lion scat found at a multiple beaver kill. I saw that had this giant the bobcat had this giant sweeping which is John Bobcat don't have big sweeping tails. It's you know I recognized their report and. Well within there. Some of the reports that I looked into that were actually on file at the local fish and game office were even from people who did not live locally. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all along the waykilled a beaver near the Quabbin Reservoir in Central Massachusetts, left behind prints and DNA at that site, and then was hit by a car in Connecticut. So when we hear mountain lion there's also cougar there's wild cat there's Bobcat which is not a mountain lion maybe Patrick could you sort of spell out the different terms which are synonymous and which are completely different animals. So they're scary. Caller: I have yeah. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. I wasn't employed as biologists at the time of a situation that's been reported but so I started digging into this report and spoke with another wildlife biologist with the agency and said Do you know anything about this. Infinite Scroll Enabled. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. They kill big animals. People were calling the New Hampshire Fish and Game director's office saying why are you dragging your feet on this. If you have them email exchange at an HP board or give us a call to tell us your story. So Pat you field a lot of calls about people seeing or reportedly seeing mountain lions. Peter Biello: And that will make identification for a layperson rather difficult. Peter Biello: Thank you for sharing that. You're on the air. If it's just in the middle of a greenfield you can't prove anything. They create these big latrines that are very obvious. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. Less successful males roam further. Okay. They sent it already. Fear for others and those two polarizing opinions on the situation is what I believe brings out mystique and Sam you know I take kind of a long view on this. Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. A lot of times. Think you've seen a mountain lion? Today on the exchange we discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. The supervisor that hired me in the game division in October of 1978 passed on to me this whole big folder of mountain lion information and sightings going back probably a couple decades. Sam what's the incentive for the government to deny allegedly. brings a lot of. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. But you can continue the conversation on Facebook or at our Web site and HP Borg. Peter Biello: Yeah some of what she was saying sounds like it would require getting pretty close or at least having a nice zoom lens right Sam like. And when provoked no animal could stand before him elegantly put. So hard to know hard to refute if there's no interest in making up a story which many people of course do then I would respond the same way as Pat did. Right. So I certainly can't dispute anything that they said there's no evidence for me to go by to verify or say what my thoughts are on the situation. Michael Brindley is our program manager our producers our Jessica Hunt and Christina Phillips and our theme music was composed by Bob Lord. Peter Biello: Or send us an email exchange at an HP board. Are there Mountain Lions in NH? So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. Rick van de Poll: Well education is the real important thrust of of what all of us do as biologists and Game Managers and to make sure that a things like what Sam was saying that in spite of what you believe the mountain lions will not eat your children they will not steal your pets from your backyard and they will not necessarily be seen by you unless you're extremely lucky. I'm gonna send you a letter that we researched this report and we spoke with those labs and the lab wrote in their letter to us that they could only say that Scott contained white Tea Party fur and that they could not say what deposited the scout because it's far too degraded listeners we'd love to hear from you about your mountain lion sightings if you have seen one or if you if you think you have give us a call we'd love to hear your story 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. I just want to tell you a story that I read. Peter Biello: They make great mascots at least. I was a Bobcat we saw it and I have a picture of it. We'd love to have you in the queue. If you missed part of today's program listen to the exchange. Patrick Tate: No downward pressure at all I think actually Sean turned up and we found the evidence there a number of people would finally say finally we can put this debate to bed. Share. Rick shaking his head so Rick now correct me please. Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. They just end up in these places. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. Absolutely. (Cue the X-Files music: The Government is denying the cougars exist!) This decision was primarily for nerdy phylogeny reasons, though, because the eastern cougar probably never existed. List of Mountains in New Hampshire is a general list of mountains in New Hampshire, with elevation.This list includes many mountains in the White Mountains range that covers about a quarter of the state, as well as mountains outside of that range.. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. Does not test random Scouts. Rick van de Poll: Oh yeah absolutely. Its closest living relative is the cheetah. The second story window through about 30 feet away from it. Caller: Are probably. We'll hear from her periodically through the show. We live around Cold Springs Campground and it was undeniably a mountain lion. I've actually had to walk in on one or two now and look at what was going on and figured out what was going on. So now what's going on. Absolutely there are a lot of folks out there who for some reason need to create something that raises a stir and gets the attention of the media etc.. Thanks also to Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England and Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in about the natural world and how we use it. If youd like to submit a question (or send a mountain line photo) you can record it as a voice memo on your smart phone and send it tooustidein@nhpr.org, OR call our hotline, 1-844-GO-OTTER (1-844-466-8837) and leave a message. Patrick Tate: Okay. Want to report a Mountain Lion sighting in New Hampshire? Have you heard stories do you have questions about the mountain line. Second when I when they did forward it from Wyoming to to Michigan you know this was coming right from sample 18 and 19 had no remarkable differences from known mountain lions from Michigan or Wyoming. Do you want to see real, living mountain lions that do exist in New Hampshire. So this whole illegal pet trade black market pro trade thing does does exist in a situation like that can happen. We we hear that there is allegedly a government conspiracy to deny the existence of mountain lions here in New Hampshire so I guess a local government conspiracy. We actually have the largest subspecies of bobcat in the northern part of our state which they can get up to 40 and over 40 pounds which looks like an 80 pound the animal to visually and quite large. Deer Bear Moose Grey Wolf Coyote Foxes Fisher Mountain Lion NH Wildlife History. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. 235 or nhandy@ledgertranscript.com. Give today. And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. But if you were to get Western dispersing mountain lions just would just sort of expanding into New Hampshire. Caller: I cannot recall or see the tail in my in my image of it. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. Having not found any evidence is not the same as saying there are no mountain lions, its the same as saying we dont know. All of that remains unanswered but it is an extremely interesting question. And I think this is a really interesting story for a couple of reasons one is that it proves what Pat was saying which that basically from New York state where its traces was really picked up on a game camera around Lake George all the way down to Connecticut there was numerous. Mountain lions when they show up they leave evidence. It's bigger but bigger and better world. WMUR NH Chronicle Mountain Lions in NH Part I and Part II. John if you're still on the line here I was going to I don't. Give today. Patrick Tate: And there's one other way to model that is the same animal. Caller: It had to be a mountain lion convinced I was about 30. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. They don't know the direction they're going. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. I had a resident in New Hampshire tell me a story of a mountain lion in the 1960s where a person who would come summer in New Hampshire and then live in a different part of the country in the winter had a trailer that was housing his mount line. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. But along the lines of the conspiracy theories as you mentioned earlier there there was a bit of a sense on behalf of what I'll call the promo online community who felt that fishing gain maybe not even so much in a spoken policy but maybe sort of an unspoken policy did not want to find themselves in a situation where they had to spend money to create a management plan and so forth. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. There's no logic for why they'd be listed as an endangered species. You need a permit to have that. Mountain Lions are a mythical creature in New Hampshire with strong feelings on both sides of the question: are there Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? But the state always denies it, and none of us know why they deny it. Thank you very much for listening. So there's even debate about that very subject. Peter Biello: We mentioned that the eastern cougar and the Western cougar are they were separate eastern cougar believed to be extinct. It doesn't make much sense because you know mountain lions are as we as we said before. He said matter of fact I do. That's what we're seeing is dispersing mountain lions from the West who are just making their way through. So one thing I'll add we're talking about natural dispensers but talking with the conservation officer in the 1980s they recall going to a residence telling a person you can live here but your mountain lion can't. Peter Biello: So a little bit of nostalgia maybe for it for a better world embodied in the mountain lion. In fact, Pat Tate concedes that hes been told of sightings from folks that he considers to be very credible, very woods savvypeople who know what a bobcat looks likebut those folks have never snapped a good photo or found a good track. Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. Thanks for a great thanks. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? I wanted to get your thoughts on the mystique of the mountain lion start with you Rick. Hunting is legal, but closely regulated by the state. Rick your thoughts. Somewhere the way they travel the things they do they're going to leave evidence. I have one that's more elaborate than that. I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. I've had a number of people call up and say I found a scout in the woods and I want it DNA identified. Patrick Tate: So it's very typical. I found a second scat scent both to him. However the scarring on the trees did not and the angles were off. And listeners this has been a lively conversation we're sorry we didn't get to all the the e-mailed comments and the phone calls your stories are appreciated even if we didn't get a chance to hear them today.